Belgariad/Headscratchers

Belgarath

It has always bugged the crap out of me that Begarath would have a wolf (Poledra) accompanying him for a few hundred years, and NOT REALIZE something funny was going on. Oh, sure, he said he thought about it once or twice...over a few centuries. What, is he that obtuse?

• • No, he's just unspeakably old by human standards already at this point, and as such doesn't neccessarily have a normal person's perception of time.
  • All the sorcerers except Polgara and Durnik are usually like that.

Sadi: "It chills my blood, the way you people just shrug off eons like that."

• • And Belgarath's tendency to lose track of time and not pay attention to what is going on around him is lampshaded several times. So part of it probably is that he's that obtuse.
  • At one point, Belgarath mentions that he realized something funny was going on when he actually thought about just how long the wolf had been hanging around. Being, as others have said, a bit out of touch with the passage of time and having a tendency to not pay attention to what is going on around him, it took a while for him to get to that.

Beldin

Why the heck didn't he just transform into a more attractive man? We've seen Belgarath take all kinds of other human forms.

• He could have, but he would have known it was a lie. It's why Beldin and Polgara greet each other with horrific insults, since Polgara saying "You look well," could only sound like an insult. But taking an animal form wouldn't feel like lying to him, since it was something completely different, and he felt free in his hawk form.
  • Did Belgarath ever actually take a human form? I'm pretty sure he used illusions to make himself look different, and Beldin did as well, but I don't think anyone ever actually transformed into another human.
    • Yes. It's mentioned in "Belgarath the Sorcerer" a couple of times.
    • I thought it was actually transforming, especially since that's the subtly stated/heavily implied answer as to why Polgara looks young while Belgarath looks old, that the sorcerers could subconsciously choose their appearances. But even if they can't actually transform and Belgarath was only using illusions, the same answer would apply to "why didn't Beldin cast an illusion of himself as a more attractive man?". Because it would have been lying, and he's too blunt and too defiant to cave to others' expectations.
      • It's interesting to note that it extends to more than just their outward appearance, because they're both physically very strong, even without enhancing themselves sorcerously. They look like old men but they're as fit as young ones.
    • "Asharak snarled and struck the bowman a crushing blow to the side of the head. The bowman fell twitching to the stone floor." Hardly evidence by itself, but it also supports the theory, since Asharak is a Grolim priest, and is unlikely to have received any 'job perks' Aldur might have handed out. While this troper has never actually tested it, she assumes you would have to be pretty strong to do that to an armoured Cherek warrior (do they wear helmets?) and the choice in language implies the same.
    • They can change their physical appearance--Beldin does it for a prolonged period of time in the Malloreon--but it takes significant effort to maintain. (When he's intoxicated, Beldin nearly reverts to his own form.) That might be why Polgara never changed HER physical appearance while hiding the heirs of the Rivan King, but instead tried (unsuccessfully) to use mundane disguises like hair dye.
      • At one point in the Malloreon, Polgara takes wolf form and the white lock carries over. We never see Garion's forepaw to see if his birthmark appears in other forms, but it's certainly possible that Polgara's stuck with that lock no matter what form she takes.
    • Here's a thought: why doesn't she change the colour of the rest of her hair, instead? The lock wouldn't be nearly so suspicious when combined with white-blonde hair instead. I'm sure even Polgara would agree that the safety of the Rivan line is more important than any personal ego issues she may have about changing her appearance. Of course, logic exists in the Belgariad-verse only when Eddings thinks he can make it do something for him.
  • Actually the books do mention that it's difficult to magically alter your hair color because you need to focus on each strand. EVERY STRAND. I don't blame her for not being thrilled at the thought.
    • That specific passage refers to turning hair grey, since the "grey" colour is the result of a mixture of normal-coloured and white-coloured hairs together.
• Why did Beldin transform him and his new... wife? into a hawk at the end of the Malloreon? Why would they never see them again? What was the point of that part of the story? Were they incapable of having a fufilling relationship without forever forsaking their human forms and cutting every relationship they ever had forever? That is something that annoyed me that Eddings ended his works with such asspulling actions, with no rime or background.
  • I think it was because what really attracted Vella to Beldin was that he could fly. Turning them both into hawks worked because Beldin wouldn't be ugly and Vella would get to fly again. As for why they were never seen again- they probably lived as hawks for the rest of their lives and weren't easy to find.

The entire Belgariad was pretty much a Foregone Conclusion, wasn't it?

The way the books were written, Garion had to win at Cthol Mishrak or otherwise the Prophecy would never be completed. Throughout the Malloreon we're basically given to understand that Geran was always destined to be the Ultimate Child of Dark, who had an equal chance of becoming God of Angarak. But if Garion had lost, Geran would never have been born, Torak would still have been running around (and what would have happened to him had Cyradis chosen Geran?) there would be no king of Riva, the West would pretty much collapse, and Durnik would never have been raised from the dead. In other words, was there ever a doubt that Garion would win? Especially when Polgara says that 'the Mrin Codex doesn't stop at Cthol Mishrak'?

• Remember, the bad guys have their own prophecy too, and it's just as powerful and accurate as the good guys'. The prophecy and the dark prophecy have been at it for milennia with each trying to become the sole destiny of the universe- the things in, say, the Mrin Codex therefore aren't absolutely perfect predictions of what will happen no matter what, they're checklists of what has to happen for the light to win. At least, that was always my take on it. Think of the 'prophecies' as more like the list of quest objectives in an RPG; when you check all of them off in your character journal, you win and move on to the next stage of the game. Only its a PVP game, the other player has his own list of quest objectives, and you're competing to see who finishes them first... and many of the quest objectives are mutually exclusive so only one side can win them.
  • That was my interpretation as well; we're following one side of the equation, watching as their prophecies are fulfilled. What we don't get to see is the bad guys running around fulfilling their prophecies, or watching them go up in smoke.
  • There was also a brief moment near the end where the King of Hell could have created a third option. Accidents can happen again, too, which throws the whole universe out of whack.
  • While Belgarath admits that a lot of his "third option" rhetoric was insubstantial, we do know that human (or divine) error could have screwed things up immensely; it's why the Prophecies panicked when Torak tried to recover the orb himself, and hastily negotiated a suspension of the rules (the theft itself wasn't an EVENT, and therefore was supposed to be predetermined). The Prophecy also mentions offhand once, to Belgarath's question, that their side typically wins about half of the EVENTs that occur...most losses are simply off-screen.
  • We do also have an implicit mention of where the Dark Prophecy was working with no counter. While the Light Prophecy fully expected and planned for the assassination of Gorek (and the hiding of the Rivan line), how everyone responded wasn't part of it. Zedar's method for the assassination was partly to try killing the line, but mostly to keep Belgarath and the other sorcerers from responding to events in Mallorea (the unification of the empire was very much a prophesied thing).
• Then again, it's also explicitly mentioned that had the battle of Vo Mimbre not ended on a certain day (the third), events favoring the Dark Prophecy would have gone forward instead. It's possible that either the Mrin could be wrong, or it had contingency prophecies embedded in it (and more for the Light Prophecy itself).
  • At one point Ctuchik comments to Belgarath about how he finds it interesting the way that he's interpreted the prophecy, and several Grolims refer to Polgara as "The Queen of the World". It's likey that they have their own versions of the prophecy that they're following, which has some occasional overlap. That's why both Polgara and Ce'Nedra had to be present during the duel between Torak and Garion: both prophecies called for their repsective "Queens Of The World" to be there. Heck the Grolims might even be working off the Mrin or Darine Codex's, and finding their own people who fit the various titles from the prophecy (who knows what Ctuchik or Zedar, or any of the other main villains may have been referenced as).
  • I always took it that if Torak had won at the end of the Belgariad, Geran would still have to come into existance. The Dark Propercy would know that the final meeting needed Eriond and Geran, therefore it would make sure that Geran would still be born so he could play his part.
  • Torak wasn't destined to kill Garion, but to have him submit to him. If that had happened, Pol would have married Torak, and Garion would probably still have been with Ce'Nedra.
• Re-read The Mallorean, specifically the last chapter of Melcena in Book 4: Torak leaves a message for Belgarion at the end of The Ashabine Chronicles that pretty much makes it clear that, had Belgarion failed, Torak would have been the new Child of Light, with Polgara as his wife and either Belgarion or Errand/Eriond becoming their "son".
  • Additionally, the Dark Prophecy DOES have it's own, um, prophecies, which are equal to the prophecies of the Light.
    • Consider that in the Prophecy of Light Ce'Nedra is referred to as "The Queen of the World", but in the Prophecy of Dark, that's Polgara's designator. Likewise, Ctuchik calls Silk "The Nimble Thief", but Belgarath refers to him as "The Guide". There are clearly two distinct Prophecies, that overlap in spots and contradict in other spots.

Polgara and Ce'Nedra

This troper gets that Polgara and Ce'Nedra are supposed to be strong, confident, powerful women who stand out in a world where women aren't generally viewed as such. OK, fine. The problem is that they come off as something quite different. Polgara comes off as strict, controlling, always certain she's in the right, unable to take any criticism and something of a bitch, and no one ever calls her out on it (OK, there was that one time in Queen of Sorcery, but then she turned around and gave a Garion a "The Reason You Suck" Speech right afterwards.) Ce'Nedra is a spoiled brat who never thinks of the consequences of her actions and puts herself above everyone else and gets called out occasionally, but otherwise, everyone pretty much does whatever they say and don't argue. That bugs me, because half the time when I'm reading the books I keep wishing that someone would stand up and give them a Reason You Suck Speech.

• I guess it makes sense that no one really talks back to Polgara considering that she's a essentially disciple of a god. I mean, it would be like giving lip to Moses or something. C'Nedra, on the other hand, seems to receive an awful amount of tolerance from such no nonsense people. I mean, Silk is a veritable wellspring of snide remarks - you would think he would have a few for C'Nedra. As it is, Garion's the only one who ever really argues with her, and everyone else seems to put that down as teenage bickering.
  • Ce'Nedra's tantrum victims generally fall into three categories: Tolnedrans (who suffer in silence because she is their Imperial Princess and Tolnedra is a place where social precedence matters, not to mention that her father has the power of summary execution), Rivans (who are much less subservient to authority but also come from a culture where stoicism is one of the highest virtues and thus won't give her the satisfaction of reacting, plus she's queen of the place), and her fellow protagonists (who don't hesitate to put her in her place if they think she's going too far, and just laugh it off the rest of the time because they find Ce'Nedra about as intimidating as a newborn kitten).
    • The protagonists (bar Durnik and Garion) have a ongoing need to keep her on side and on prophecy, if they start ragging her too much she may try to run away (again) and while they can catch her again while this is a minor irritation it would alienate her from The Cause
  • Additionally, Ce'Nedra's main talent seems to be manipulating people - she's often described as devious, for example. However, this is mainly an Informed Ability. The protagonists all see through her, and someone who should know how to tell a decent lie does a woeful job when she runs away from the palace. She should know better than to keep changing her story, at least.
    • Fridge Brilliance(?) - Tolnedrans are, generally, portrayed as not very bright, at least when it comes to things not related to money (and even then, look at what happened to Maragor). So it would make sense for her to be able to seem like a champion liar to Tolnedrans. If it helps, Mandorellen and even Garion seem to fall for it, and the latter at least had the benefit of Belgarath around to teach him how to lie, plus Jeebers got out of there pretty damn fast once they were found out, AND fell for Ce'Nedra's previous incredibly obvious lie.
• It bothers me that the women always get the last word in any bickering/snarkfest. If they're trading witty barbs, the women will win. Polgara and the queens are especially bad at this. Smug little twerps.
  • On the author's behalf, this was probably to make up for the fact that the women weren't usually fighters, and it would have been easy for them to come off as damsels. It's still annoying when the men are reduced to idiots for no good reason.
  • What bugs me is that conversation about the tree in the woods. The women said that yes, it's still a sound, which is fine ... but their answers were stupid and missing the point. There's a much better answer. If Polgara had said "Yes, because a sound is simply vibrations in the air caused by the tree hitting the ground, and those vibrations will occur whether or not there is anything to hear them. If you think it shouldn't be called a sound unless there's someone to hear it, then you are discussing semantics, not physics." I don't mind the women winning the arguments, so long as they earn their victories. In this case, they really didn't. "Trees can hear, too," honestly. It's a hypothetical situation. That's got nothing to do with it.
    • Durnik had already been arguing the fact that a sound is a sound. Beldin wasn't taking any of it, so it fell on the one who talks with birds and the one who talks with trees to present the facts that small critters, birds, and trees can all hear sounds too. Also, you seem to be forgetting that the world of The Belgariad and The Mallorean is basically Medieval times. Even if the Melcenes had discovered what is now common knowledge regarding the physics of sound, it is unlikely anyone else would know or care about it, especially when you factor in most of the Kingdoms of the West lumping all of Mallorea under the same heading as the Murgos, Nadraks, and Thulls.
• Polgara the Sorceress shows the genesis of her attitude, and demonstrates that a fair amount of it is false. She's quite content with her father, her ragging on him is a sort of game they play together. Her dominant posture over everyone else stems from her knowledge of the prophecies and her own (immense) power, sure, but it derives even more from her private identification with her mother's wolfish heritage. She's the Alpha and it's important for her to assert that. When the chips are down, she doesn't stand back and let the men do all the work, she's right in there with them, and is an excellent example of a confident woman.
  • Perhaps, but the protagonists are human (and so are the readers!), and by human standards she's just bossy.
    • Yes, but you wouldn't tell her so. Ce'Nedra should have been taken down a notch or three, but Polgara is really the only one who can, and for all we know, she does.
    • True, but why do we have to put up with them?
• What always bugged me was that bit in Queen of Sorcery where Ce'Nedra was teaching Garion to read. Polgara sees them and tells Garion to pay attention, because knowledge was important and he should learn as much as he can. Well, uh...if she thought learning to read was so important, why didn't she teach him before that?
  • Well, that was discussed in "Polgara the Sorceress", when she tells Belgarath that she'll solve the issue of the child Garion accidentally learning who he is before the time is right by not teaching him how to read; when Belgarath blusters about how necessary it would be for the Godslayer to be able to read the Prophecies, Pol reminds him that she didn't learn how to read until she was 18.
  • Or Polgara planned it this way - the business of teaching Garion to read would keep Ce'Nedra occupied, and would also give them another reason to relate to each other.
• I haven't read Polgara the Sorceress, so maybe this is discussed there, but something that's always gotten to me in Pawn of Prophecy is how, in Val Alorn, Polgara just destroys Martje's ability to see the future so casually and in such a high-handed manner. It's a serious case of her being arrogant. I suppose it's a good example of a character flaw, which most good characters need, but . . . I wish we had seen the consequences, or something, anything that resulted from that. Besides further establishing Polgara as incredibly arrogant, the act seems worthless.
  • I agree. It's a serious case of Protagonist-Centered Morality- Martje might have been annoying, and she shouldn't have kept harassing Barak, but that's no excuse for Polgara to just fuck her over like that. (BTW, no, it's not mentioned in Polgara the Sorceress- the book ends before Pawn of Prophecy.)
    • Martje isn't annoying. Martje is insane. Polgara specifically mentions that her mind isn't set up to handle having psychic powers and is going funny under the strain. Removing her powers might distress her (as they are the main thing that has defined her life up to that point and made her feel special), but arguably its going to significantly improve her lifespan.
• One thing that confuses me in Pawn of Prophecy specifically and to a lesser extent in the others extent is how Polgara is on a first name relationship with the queens. She'd been undercover for nearly fifteen years raising Garion. Would she have even had a chance to even meet some of them?
  • She doesn't need to have met them in order to know what their names are, and they certainly know who she is. Now to answer the other implied question, 'why the hell does Polgara get away with treating them so familiarly if they're not actually friends', well...
    • First off, Polgara is doing it deliberately to establish dominance — by addressing them by their first names she is saying "I am, at minimum, your social equal and will be treated as such", without even having to demand their deference openly. Polgara's naturally bossy like that. Also remember that Polgara's first experiences with diplomacy were with Alorn and Arendish nobility, and in both situations she had to get the mule's attention with a club first before she could start doing anything with them. And that's how she's been doing diplomacy ever since.
    • Second off, she's getting away with it because none of the queens are going to dare to object. She is Polgara the Sorceress, immortal demigoddess — she is above all law and custom except those laid down by Aldur himself, and can destroy a city with her brain any time she feels like losing her temper. There's literally nothing they can do to stop Polgara from doing anything she feels like, and they know it.
    • Third off, none of the queens have any in-character reason to want to object. Queen Layla of Sendaria is super-friendly and down-to-earth and goes around on a first-name basis with practically everyone anyway, so she's probably not even noticing that Polgara is technically offering lese-majeste. Queen Islena of Cherek is a haughty type and would normally be offended by such behavior... except that she's also a total sorceress-wannabe and Polgara fangirl, so she's just going to be squee'ing that her idol is talking to her at all. Queen Porenn of Drasnia is an experienced spymistress, and is far too professional to actually get in an argument over social issues... and also has the sort of sense of humor that find's Polgara's behavior personally amusing. And Queen Silar of Algaria is not only from a culture that places very little emphasis on fancy-schmancy behavior, but is personally The Stoic, and wouldn't bother showing any anger even if she was feeling any.

The Orb of Aldur

The Sardion/Cthrag Sardius was called 'one half of the stone that was divided' by Cyradis. The Orb/Cthrag Yaska, we are given to understand, was the other half. So why does everyone keep saying that the Orb was an ordinary stone until Aldur picked it up, or created by Aldur?

• It's a Retcon. In story explanation, Aldur knew its true nature and was studying it, but his disciples were confused. They naturally thought their god and master was responsible for all the awesome going on and they taught Garion wrong.
• Understand that the in-universe book excerpts at the beginning of each book are written by people who don't really have the whole story, and neither do some of the protagonists. Cyradis is right, the others are wrong.
• Another example of the Prophecies tampering, maybe. If they can make the entire world change the pronunciation of Korim to Turim then tinkering with a few authors to obscure the truth and not point every single would be Ruler of the World to the "other" stone of power would be child's play.

Torak

This troper gets that gods can't heal naturally and that Torak was asleep, so he couldn't wake up and heal himself... but why didn't Urvon or Zedar try to heal him?

• Because he's a god maimed by the Orb; that's far too much injury for a pair of human wizards to even make a dent on. If all it took was magic, he could have magically healed himself even without a natural healing system.
• The only part the Orb played was that it was one of few things in the Universe able to actually wound a god. If UL or the Universe created a super-powered thorn which would be able to scratch the gods, they still wouldn't heal. No matter how much healing magic you throw at the gods, they just won't heal. Period. And, I didn't see much, if any, healing magic in the books, anyway.
• Also explicitly pointed out, the only thing that could heal Torak was the thing that had hurt him in the first place, ie. the Orb of Aldur - and it was angry about Torak's misuse. At the end of the Belgariad, it did heal Torak, albeit posthumously.

The other sorcerers

So what exactly was the point of Beldin, Belsambar and Belmakor? Belgarath says that Beltira and Belkira were basically the translators of the Mrin/Darine Codexes, but it's never really mentioned what the others were meant to do.

• Belsambar and Belmakor both committed suicide after the first Angarak war, so they never got a chance to achieve their purposes. As a Mallorean Angarak and a Melcene respectively, they were probably intended for operations on the Mallorean continent — instead, Aldur had to yield that field of play entirely to Torak for about three millenia.
  • Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU! I have, no joke, read the Belgariad and the Malloreon more than thirty times, but never once put together Belksambar and Belmakor's particular significance with respect to specific theaters of the War of the Gods. That makes such great sense now!
    • It's also possible that with Belmakor and Belsambar dead, Beldin had to pick up some of the slack with regards to Mallorean operations. He spent a lot of time over there, for one, while Belgarath and Polgara had to do most of the heavy lifting on the western continent instead, possibly doing what Beldin had been intended to do. After all, we didn't get the prophecies until after Belmakor and Belsambar were dead, so the Prophecy Of Light may have done some reshuffling of roles in the wake of their deaths.
  • It occurred to this troper to wonder the same thing about Belmakor, although she couldn't come up with any answers, except maybe that he was there to invent catapults (which seemed like a stupid purpose, since Beldin probably could have managed that on his own). With Belsambar, she just figured he was there to show them how to beat Torak in the first war.
  • I had a rather depressing theory, but it is quite possible that Belmakor and Belsambar's entire Purpose *was* to die, for two reasons: 1/ Having known how it felt to lose those special brothers stayed Belgarath's hand during the EVENT that pitted him and Zedar in the Morindland wastes while he was on his way to retrieve the Orb. He even states he'd lost too many brothers to do that to Zedar, even after his betrayal. Since Zedar is necessary later on, to find Eriond and to steal the Orb (again) it is imperative that Belgarath NOT kill him. 2/ Their deaths prepared Beldin to deal with Belgarath's reaction to Poledra's apparent death. We know that Beldin and the twins watched him carefully and stopped him a few times as he gathered his will to obliterate himself while he was chained to his bed.
• As for Beldin, note that he was the one who guarded Torak's slumbering body against premature awakening for the entire duration between his defeat at Vo Mimbre and the start of the Belgariad. Also, Belgarath called on him for support several times, or to check things out in one part of the world while he was busy in another.
• Beldin was basically there to be The Lancer for Belgarath.
  • He was pretty awesome in that, too.
• Here's a thought: Remember those EVENTs the Prophecy of Light mentioned they lost?

General morality

It just bugs me in this as well as in other works of Eddings the brutal punishments dished out to bad guys. For example, what Belgarath did to Zedar which was implied would go on forever? I mean, that's just not cool, especially when it's never pointed out as being problematic in the text at all.

• There is a quote floating around from Belgarath about Zedar. Something along the lines of "Every once in a while I feel guilty, but then I remember all the horrible things he did." And if I remember correctly, Garion has nightmares about how he burned his parents' murderer alive. I agree that it seems brutal to our society, but it's probably less so for a medieval-esque society that's been engaged in divine warfare for a few hundred centuries.
  • What had Zedar done that was worse than some of the things Belgarath and co had done over the years? Besides, just look at him - it's pretty obvious he was broken by Torak as soon as they met - pretty much everything he says in Enchanter's Endgame is tinged with regret, and he has that breakdown in Belgarath the Sorcerer that cements him as someone hating his job but who is literally incapable of going against the god who mind-raped him in any way.
    • This argument is sliding into Draco in Leather Pants territory. Even if you believe that Zedar was broken by Torak, it was entirely his own fault. Zedar betrayed his brothers and his God, entirely of his own volition, simply because his impulsiveness and hubris led him to go off half-cocked and try to outsmart Torak. Not even Belgarath was so arrogant as to believe he could outwit a God, even one as single-minded as Torak. It wasn't even about good intentions, because Zedar was also shown to have an unhealthy obsession with the Orb long before he turned heel; Belgarath notes it several times in Belgarath the Sorcerer, and the other disciples saw it too. It was also implied that Zedar's betrayal was one of the major factors in the depression that led to Belmakor committing suicide. And if we're talking about regret? Despite everything Zedar did, Belgarath does admit to feeling a great deal of guilt over what he did to him on some level.
• This troper thinks she recalls that, at some point, Belgarath points out that it's not exactly a Good vs. Evil fight. It's more like Us vs. Them, and the protagonists will occasionally have to do bad things.
  • One thing that has always struck this troper about Belgarath is his ability to commit unthinkable crimes in furtherance of his divine mission. There's a scene in Demon Lord of Karanda where he and Silk waylay and butcher a few townspeople just to get regional dress to move around in. It makes an interesting point to me, since I'm also an author (not to the scale of the Eddingses): if the fate of the universe were at stake, how far would YOU go?
    • Re-read Demon Lord of Karanda. Belgarath and Silk don't waylay and butcher any townspeople. Silk just goes off, knocks out some demon-worshiping religious fanatics, and steals their clothes. The protagonists only kill when necessary. Or when Zandramas threatens Geran.
    • On the other hand, Belgarath himself points out in Belgarath the Sorcerer that he spent a few hundred years (if not more) running around the west making sure to always arrange marriages, ensure people survived (even leading them away from the battlefield if necessary, to prevent them from encountering people they shouldn't), and assassinate some. He makes no pretext of being a saint, and does what is necessary. He doesn't necessarily like doing it (although he's probably demolished quite a few Grolims in his time, even then he doesn't take pleasure in slaughtering them), but he'll do it all the same.
• Still, this troper had difficulty sympathising with the characters a lot of the time, because their extreme Protagonist-Centered Morality effectively alienated them. And since she's here, she'll mention Beldin. Everyone says that he's actually very gentle - but he's one of the most violent and vindictive of the 'good guys'. He thinks Zedar got off too easy (this troper falls into the 'feels sorry for Zedar' camp). I'm supposed to believe he's a sweet and caring guy? I see why he became that way, sure, but . . . get real.
  • Remember, most of the people who view Beldin as gentle are fellow sorcerers who A, have known both Beldin and Zedar for a long time, and B, have had to deal with everything Zedar has done. They know how Beldin feels about himself, they know the problems he has had to face, and based on that, along with all the bad shit Zedar did, they're more inclined to view Beldin as the gentle one who does what he has to do in the service of Aldur and Zedar as the Complete Monster.
  • Which doesn't help me any, since I haven't known Beldin and Zedar for eons, and I'm being told this stuff by people whose own morality (or rather, the lack thereof) is also alienating me. Their opinions about Beldin may be justified, or at least understandable, but I can't share them and that limits how much I can sympathise. I do enjoy the books, but often when I'm reading them I find myself wanting to shake the characters and scream "It's not all about you! Other people matter! Just because you don't personally know and like someone, doesn't mean they're not important! YOU AREN'T THE CENTRE OF THE WORLD!" Also, what Belgarath did to Zedar was both stupid and unnecessary. Kill him, sure; it's impractical to leave one of your greatest enemies around to stab you in the back (though I don't think Zedar would have bothered unless Torak told him to, and he probably would've been quite relieved if the boss kicked it). It was vengeance, pure and simple, for a murder of a guy who was asking for it, which he regretted. A guy who didn't even stay dead. Yes, in-story it was revenge for a whole heap of other stuff as well, but nothing that we the audience get to see. Which means that he hasn't really done enough for us (or me) to take a twisted, sadistic pleasure in his suffering, and the whole thing reflects poorly on Belgarath. Which also means that it's sloppy story-telling on behalf of David Eddings, since he's made no secret that this is meant to be the literary equivalent of peddling dope, and so he should be trying to entertain and connect with the reader. That should take priority over Belgarath getting his vengeance on. Note: as much as I feel sorry for Zedar, under the circumstances I would not have blamed Belgarath for killing him. The old guy just takes it too far.
    • Remember, though, that it's determined that during major EVENTs, people tend to go off their rockers. What Belgarath does to Zedar is even used as an example of that insanity when they're discussing it in Seeress of Kell. Yes, that doesn't excuse his not returning to undo what he did, but after all, it's never denied that "'Grat is not nice."
    • Belgarath the Sorcerer gives a great deal of context to the entire backstory with Aldur's disciples, and spells out just why Zedar's actions were so inexcusable. Belgarath never claims to be a saint but he does deeply regret that whole situation and wishes he could have stopped it from ever escalating that far (he even goes so far as to admit he probably shouldn't blame Zedar for his actions, Because Destiny Says So, though plain old human weakness gets to him). That said, where these Belgarath the Death-Eater arguments fall flat is that Aldur's disciples live almost in an entirely different world because of their roles as the Chosen Ones. They really are the Center of the World, as instruments of the Light Prophecy--right along with the Dark Prophecy's Rogues Gallery. That's the one of the major points of the series, the whole story revolves around their dueling, eons-long Xanatos Gambits. Belgarath freely cops to his Jerkass tendencies all throughout the books, and says point blank that Good Is Not Nice because it can't afford to be; being driven by Necessity inherently means being somewhat of a Magnificent Bastard at times, and you have to harden yourself on some level to be able to do your job properly (those who still lambaste Polgara for refusing to coddle Garion, take note.). Not only that, sorcerers' immortality means they relate to each other on a far deeper level than ordinary people do, particularly Aldur's disciples. They'd been a family for thousands of years, and lived through all kinds of traumas, including their Master's grief over being betrayed by His brother, countless wars (the original cracking of the world foremost among them), and so on. They'd already lost two brothers to suicide, and it's heavily implied that Belmakor caught onto Zedar's Mole turn before the rest of them, contributing to the depression that ultimately killed him. Given all of this, it becomes much clearer just how deeply Zedar's betrayal affected them all, but none so great as Belgarath, who was the eldest of them all and who clearly was still carrying several eons worth of survivor's guilt with him despite appearances. Belgarath himself notes the intensity of their bonds in his book, when he discusses the aftermath of Belsambar's suicide. Combine that with the above point about people having a tendency to go nuts during EVENTs and it starts to become blindingly obvious what Belgarath was going through during that final confrontation.

Belgarath: "Ordinary people who live ordinary lives can't begin to understand just how deeply you can become involved with another person over the course of thousands of years. In a peculiar sort of way, Belsambar's self-obliteration maimed me. I think I'd have preferred to lose an arm or a leg rather than my mystic Angarak brother, and I know that my other brothers felt much the same."

• • • The prequel book also makes it clear that they were bonded on some sort of mental and spiritual level. They probably were maimed spiritually, and not the metaphorical kind. Belsambar's death was something that every single disciple of Aldur felt, even the ones who were almost literally on the other side of the planet and couldn't possibly have sensed any build-up of his Will. They knew that he had died in the exact instant Belgarath knew, and for the rest of their (more or less immortal) lives they have to carry a giant hole in their mind/spirit/heart that was once their brother. And Belgarath, as the eldest of them and the one who taught the vast majority of the other disciples at one point or another, would carry that even more heavily than the others.
• The morality question is something that makes the series more "realistic". The characters are three dimensional characters that have the drives and failings of real people rather than being "good" or "evil". They live in the far more densely populated gray area between those extremes. Basically, bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Then, when you add in all the extraordinary things that these good and bad people do, you have a whole different scale of morality. If you have it in your power to trap someone in a wall for eternity because they helped kill your brothers or because they caused countless deaths then wouldn't you do it? Part of this troper's love of the Belgariad stems from the deep characterisations in the whole tale and the fact that it highlights the rashness of an action and the consequences for that person when the cold light of day hits. It Is Written that Garion agonised for decades about what he did to Asharak, and that Belgarath was still guilty about what he did to Zedar two decades after he did it. David Eddings was aware that morality is a thin veneer of civilisation that we all cover ourselves in, and that comes through in how he writes his characters.

Garion's I Just Want to Be Normal

It really bugs me that whenever Garion gets upset, everyone else is just like 'Garion, stop whining and live with it. You're being immature.' Why couldn't someone just try comforting him and explaining things to him instead of being snarky bitches all the time?

• No one else in the party has ever been "normal" (even if Polgara's intimately familiar with how a normal life progresses), nor have they ever particularly wanted to be. Their lack of empathy with Garion's desires is entirely understandable, and even Garion stops wanting to be normal eventually.
  • Also, the two people in the group who would normally be most inclined to be sympathetic to him — Belgarath & Polgara — are also intimately aware that the fate of the entire universe literally hangs on Garion learning how to be as abnormal as possible, and right quickly. Hence their repeatedly kicking him in the pants.
    • Belgareth does want to explain things to Garion, but he gave complete control over raising him to Polgara who doesn't understand that life would be simpler if she explained things to Garion.
    • Polgara's trying to hurry him into learning how to be abnormal, and keep him completely ignorant and under her thumb. She seems dead set on having him as her puppet.
    • The last time one of the Rivan heirs had been told how important he was, he turned into a retarded egomaniac that Asharak almost manipulated into leading a resurgence of the Bear-Cult. Polgara and Belgarath were seriously discussing mindwiping him, they were that desperate. Polgara's reaction to that near-miss was 'Never again!'. And so, enforced normality and major humility lifestyles.
    • Actually, even before and after that they did tell the heirs (and their wives) the truth, but it was only after they became adults because, as is clearly stated in at least Belgarath's book, kids and teenagers tend to go off and blab about shit, especially shit that's supposed to stay SECRET. Garion was still too young, and, as is stated countless times in The Belgariad, a lot of their foes had the ability to pluck the truth right out from someone's mind. That's why not even the Companions save Belgarath and Polgara know the truth.
• Crash courses into Badass are rarely very kind.
• How about when Garion kills Asharak? When he burns another human being alive? Yes, Asharak probably deserved it, but it's still a big thing, and Polgara brushes off his guilt like it's nothing. In her defense, they didn't have much time, but surely things would go faster if she helped him work through that, instead of belittling his feelings and glorifying his act.
  • Until you realize that Polgara is essentially centuries old and has seen many, many people die. Plus Asharak killed Garion's parents (and tried to kill Garion), a family she has been protecting for a number of said centuries and the only connection she had left to her beloved sister. To Garion, his parents were people he never met, having been raised by Polgara. To Polgara they were people she helped raise and protect their entire lives. Of course she's less than inclined to be kind to their murderer.
    • But she should have been kinder to Garion, or at least actually considered that he wouldn't feel the same way as her.
  • Also keep in mind that Asharak/Chamdar had been Ctuchik's errand boy for centuries before this. He's got a lot of innocent blood on his hands, directly or indirectly.
    • Which would not have changed how Garion felt, since Polgara refused to tell him anything and so he couldn't have known about everything Asharak got up to.
  • Might not help Garion, but from Polgara's perspective the man richly deserved what he got, which would make the whole situation rather difficult for her to deal with.
    • It seems to me that one of Polgara's most glaring flaws is her inability to relate to the concerns of ordinary people, so there is a reason, just not an excuse.

The linguistic situation

In an otherwise good series this is one that sticks out a bit. Everyone in the world seems to be speak the same language (except the Ulgos) but there are strange inconsistencies along the way. Given that Torak like setting himself and his people apart it makes sense for Angaraks to speak a separate language (referenced as Old Angarak) to the other people of the world but why do modern Angaraks speak the same language as the Kingdoms of the West? Also the Proto-Ulgos spoke a different language to everyone else as well and this state of affairs pre-dated the first Gorim getting them accepted by UL. Also fair enough but then why do the Melcenes, the Dals, the Morindim and the Karands all speak the communal language?

• • The Murgos etc are said to speak the Western tongue with a "harsh accent". Since the only Murgos we really interact with are a) high-ranking, or b) Grolims, they've probably learned the language so as to communicate with Westerners.
    • Torak, his disciples (sans Urvon post-Cthol Mishrak), and the various Angarak Kings aren't morons. They all knew they'd eventually have to be diplomatic with the West, however reluctantly, in order to further their goals of killing off the line of Riva and stealing the Orb. Makes sense that they would adopt the language of the West, and force it on their subject peoples (Dals, Melcenes, Karands). Morindim probably picked it up from the Nadraks.
  • We know Torak banned the teaching of Old Angarak (presumably the Grolims got an exemption, since every copy of the Book of Torak we encounter is written in Old Angarak). Simply altering the language a bit wouldn't have taken care of matters from his viewpoint; 21st century English-speakers can still read Shakespeare and get most of the jokes, and I can get most of the sense of Chaucer in the original. A hypothetical "New Angarak" language would still have allowed anyone literate to read and comprehend Old Angarak. He could have devised a completely unrelated language, but using the common tongue of the West was probably simpler. As for the Dals, in one of the prequel novels Polgara greets the Gorim in Dalish, because she hasn't studied the Ulgo language yet. The Dals probably switched languages to make their tasks easier.

Lelldorin

Seriously, dear young, useless Lelldorin. If you think about it a little, the whole saga could have been written even without him and still being perfectly working. Not that I dislike Eddings or anything, but come on! All he did was drop out of nowhere near the beginning of the second book, chat with Garion and provide some firepower in a couple of battles and then being Put on a Bus and making mess offscreen. Seriously, why he even bothere putting him as one of the prophetized warriors in the first place!?

• While Leldorin did not really contribute to the Quest, his friendship with Mandorallen may and certainly will contribute to removing grudges and hatred between Asturians and Mimbrates. It is the same with Relg and Taiba, Purpose of the Universe stated that their courtship and marriage have very little to do with Garion but is very important nonetheless.
  • Lelldorin's primary purpose seems to be to help Ce'Nedra's first recruitment speech in Asturia go well. Seriously, it's the only thing he does in the whole series that couldn't just as easily have been done by someone else.
    • Well, for one, he's good comic relief; his sheer stupidity actually makes him funny without being insufferable (mostly). Besides that, he's related to prominent Asturian nobility, so his frienship and marriage to two prominent Mimbrates will help bridge the gap between the two regions, and his realization of the flaws of Arendia's serfdom might become important to the kingdom later on (it likely would have helped if Eddings brought this stuff up like he did with Taiba and Relg). Finally, he participate a little more in the Mallorean. That said, it's true he's definitely not a main character, even though he seems to be billed as such, since he's mentioned in the Prophecy and all.
    • Lelldorin is also the only person in the party who can tell Garion about the Asturian conspiracy to kill the king that Asharak is backing (as Lelldorin is of course the only person there who would ever be invited into it). And Garion's coming forward with that revelation in front of the Arendish court is the first instance Garion actually puts himself forward into royal affairs on his own initiative, a very important step in his character development. So while Lelldorin's role in the Prophecy seems to expire early on, it was not a disposable role.

Silk and Chamdar

Given his cameo towards the end of Belgarath the Sorcerer, shouldn't Silk have known who Chamdar was? He explicitly knows that Asharak is an alias of Chamdar's, and that Belgarath was (and presumably still is) interested in Chamdar's movements.

• I believe it's explicitly stated by Belgarath that Chamdar subtly influenced Silk's mind, much like he did with Garion's, to keep him from putting two and two together.

Eriond the non-character

Eriond turns into a bit of a non-character in the latter half of the Malloreon. Not simply that he doesn't do anything, but rather that every time he's mentioned it evokes a "Oh, I forgot about him" response. Given how important he is to the story, and that he's the protagonist of the Malloreon's opening chapters, his extended period Out of Focus makes the ending feel almost (but not quite) like a Deus Ex Machina.

The stars

In The Mallorean, the possible outcome is supposed to be 50/50, right? Nobody knows ahead of time which side will win. The loser will become the stars to fill in the gap caused by the original accident. Afterward, Garion is told by the Purpose that if he had lost, he and the Orb would be heading for a new address. So... how come only Zandramas started looking starry throughout the series? Shouldn't they both have? It makes it seem like there was only one possible outcome, and the heroes needn't have worried.

Salmissra's Lifespan

Salmissra had sorcerous power. Shouldn't that have made her immortal, thus rendering both the youth-giving drugs and her scheming unnecessary?

• It seems to be a matter of power, or maybe of divine intervention. If you think about it, the only immortal sorcerers have been the disciples of Aldur and the most powerful Grolims, who are all either Torak's disciples or the disciples of Torak's disciples (Asharak). Failing that, it could easily be that they simply live that long because the Prophecy needs them to, which I believe is hinted at in the story. Salmissra, on the other hand, has relatively minor powers and isn't necessary to the prophecy (well, this particular one isn't, because as Polgara states, all Salmissra's are basically the same and thus the Prophecy needn't bother preserving her).